tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34953284.post6637346708965619674..comments2023-09-09T09:35:53.171-05:00Comments on The Divine Low Carb: The Skinny on Being FatPJhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04391277875371518678noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34953284.post-55534103873988935872007-07-29T22:19:00.000-05:002007-07-29T22:19:00.000-05:00While I was reading this post, I was thinking this...While I was reading this post, I was thinking this is my life! I need to loose about 70 lbs. and just can't seem to do it no matter how hard I try or what diet I do. I was doing Atkins for the last two months but went off last week while on vacation. I had lost eight lbs. in the first four weeks and zero in the last four even though I stuck to plan. I gained back the eight lbs. I struggled so hard to loose in just one short week.<BR/><BR/>Any way I will give it another shot starting on the 1st of August - maybe I will succeed this time.<BR/><BR/>I do believe that genetics plays a very big part in my weight problem. My mom had gastric bypass to "solve" her problem and I don't want ever want to need to do the same.the Paper Crafting Divahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11518676310225292129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34953284.post-15003409275448495462007-07-03T14:06:00.000-05:002007-07-03T14:06:00.000-05:00PJ said:"But I wonder if certain aminos or mineral...PJ said:<BR/><BR/>"But I wonder if certain aminos or minerals or even trace elements, lacking, could drive eating. "<BR/><BR/>I've said this many times. There is no 'food' in our food. Many people chronically overeat in a desperate search for adequate nutrition. Especially if you eat the recommended SAD. Not enough fat, not enough protein, and since hardly anyone ACTUALLY eats the recommended amount of veggies, going instead for apples, bananas and orange juice, not enough vitamins and minerals either.<BR/><BR/>I think that's a lot of the 'average' overweight USerican's problem. Too much food, not enough nutrition.<BR/><BR/>That doesn't explain special cases like PJ and me. Although PJ was actually thin until her 20s or something. I've never even been in the same room as thin.<BR/><BR/>BatsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34953284.post-33570537718344407632007-07-03T09:04:00.000-05:002007-07-03T09:04:00.000-05:00Hi Sherrie, I agree, it did sound like it was 'the...Hi Sherrie, I agree, it did sound like it was 'the dieting' or 'coming from a higher weight' that seemed to make the diff in the lesser calories burned at the same weight. But it's kinda hard to say that had meaning without hearing of a study on that specific thing. It'd be hard to test for. In the example, someone of a fairly normal weight had dieted down from morbid obesity (lost 100 lbs), and was compared with another person of normal weight. One would almost want a way to compare a person prone to obesity at their high weight, not a dieted-down-to weight, with someone not obese... but that's kinda not possible unless you could see into the future for which people actually became morbidly obese (and even then the factor that helped might not be present/active earlier). <BR/><BR/>It seems like one of the twin studies speaks to this though when it shows some people gaining weight on extra calories and others not, and that tracked to the twin (genetics) not to the calories themselves. I suppose what they'd really need to test would be twins where one of them had lost weight to attain the same weight as their twin, and then compare their BMR at that weight. I can see how this would get really expensive and complicated at the research level!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Regina I'd thought you meant specific aminos in protein but now I think you just meant protein in general. But I wonder if certain aminos or minerals or even trace elements, lacking, could drive eating. Given that much of our culture is chronically lacking something, it seems like there'd be more people who got fat than those whose base metabolism (genetically) was less-equipped for survival and did NOT gain on extra calories. But protein would sure make sense. One thing lowcarb really highlights is how little protein there is in almost any food except the few base 'real foods' that lowcarb allows. You wipe out meat, nuts, dairy, and that's pretty much it (unless counting 'partial' proteins in veggies, legumes and so on count). The carbfest of the modern world has incredibly little protein involved. What it makes you wonder though is if kids don't get enough protein doesn't it screw up growth?<BR/><BR/>ST it does seem almost surreal, the "institutionalized prejudice" against obesity and obese people -- given that science ALREADY KNOWS what the hell is going on. It seems like the real problem is that many scientists and momst doctors are mostly ignorant of modern science (which is unfortunate), and apparently the educational norms of the medical industry doesn't choose to use modern information, which combined with the overwhelming marketing muscle of drug companies, magazines and newsletters funded by them, etc. makes the average doc unlikely to get real info unless they hunt it down on their own.PJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391277875371518678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34953284.post-84405782494968671872007-07-02T22:08:00.000-05:002007-07-02T22:08:00.000-05:00Hey Regina :)With your comment on protein requirem...Hey Regina :)<BR/><BR/>With your comment on protein requirements and satiation I am a little unsure with this. Obviously to eat less protein then our bodies need especially during calorie restriction and/or exercise is a bad idea but for me I don't find it satiating.<BR/><BR/>What I mean by that is during my weight loss phase of LC I always ate over 100g a day of protein and I didn't have problems with my appetite. But I found if I ate a protein heavy meal say a big whole chicken breast and salad I would still be very hungry. But if I loaded it with fat and fibrous veggies I was fine. I still find I have to load everything with fat and veggies.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Hey PJ :)<BR/><BR/>I found this quote below from your post interesting. Yeah genetics play a large part of it but I was also thinking and of course this could be partly genetic too (eg at what level of restriction your body reacts too, natural build etc) but the gist of that quote seemed to hint to me that it could have been the actual act of the diet itself that may have caused the difference in metabolism at 150pds.<BR/><BR/>I wonder what the diet he was speaking of was like? Was it very low in calories, fat and protein? Did they lose a lot of muscle mass? Were their fat/muscle/bone ratios similar?<BR/><BR/><I>Dr. Jeffrey Friedman: So it turns out – and this was some lovely work done by Jules Hirsch here at Rockefeller [this study, published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1996, measured the metabolism of people who lost weight through a precisely controlled diet] --] it turns out they burn many fewer calories than you would predict based on their newer weight.<BR/><BR/>So let me put a finer point on this. Imagine you’re 250 pounds. and you lose 100 lbs. to 150 lbs. Now you ask how many calories does that person burn compared to someone who started out at 150 pounds.They burn like 300 or 400 calories fewer per day when they’re at that reduced weight. Now think about it. That person is hungry and now can only eat fewer calories than the equal weight person to maintain that weight, despite the fact that they weigh the same amount.</I>.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16627887590504890131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34953284.post-78968129217081910002007-07-02T19:58:00.000-05:002007-07-02T19:58:00.000-05:00The more quantity of food and more often I eat, as...<I>The more quantity of food and more often I eat, as long as it isn't excessively of course, the more I lose weight. </I><BR/><BR/>From my reading of low-carber's bulletin boards over the years, I've learned this is often true. People speculate about it having some effect on "getting your metabolism going." I'm not sure they really know why, just that it does seem to work that way.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the very interesting commentary on this interview.Dreamboathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08249471598832409650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34953284.post-59988951013978003742007-07-02T19:28:00.000-05:002007-07-02T19:28:00.000-05:00That's really interesting, both of you. Regina, wh...That's really interesting, both of you. Regina, what if some ethnic groups actually *require* MORE of something like certain aminos? I mean, just like some people require more sunlight, or require many fewer carbs, or whatever. So like, if natives needed amino X and for whatever obscure reason they needed 2x as much as the average person, it would almost engender a chronic overeating habit from the biological impetus to get critical nutrition.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if carb addiction actually fools some primal part of the body-brain that thinks because of the high sugar response, that it has a much greater chance of getting something it needs from something like that, maybe because sweeter things were always fresh for example (fruits don't keep). You know, kinda like, "hijacks" some natural function of the body that pushes us toward high-carb food because it was rare, fresh and precious, and maybe the more the body needs some element, the more it would push toward that (eg the greater the deficiency the more the 'sugar' craving vs. food in general).<BR/><BR/>Which reminds me of someone once saying that you never hear of anybody binging on broccoli.<BR/><BR/>Just thinking on paper.PJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04391277875371518678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34953284.post-40032268139590388342007-07-02T17:26:00.000-05:002007-07-02T17:26:00.000-05:00...the third possibility is that there are biologi...<I>...the third possibility is that there are biological drives that lead us to eat what we eat...</I><BR/><BR/>The very real and very present biological drive is crystal clear if we look to animal models first (and human epidemiological data models and/or clincal trials investigating diet second). <BR/><BR/>In aminal models, where studies have been designed to specifically examine "eat/stop eating" in insects, mammals and such, the driving force is meeting required amino acids (protein)....an animal provided a limited protein (low density options) will overeat until they reach their protein requirement, even if it means eating excess of their energy requirements; give protein rich options and they stop eating when they reach their protein intake requirements, even if the caloric density is lower than needed. It's fascinating stuff because when you dig into it, it makes sense from a biological perspective and mechanistic view of biology - without EAA the organism will slowly fail and eventually die because almost every process in the body requires EAA's.<BR/><BR/>Then looking to human data and studies - low-carbohydrate diets, where protein and fat is allowed ad libitum (at will) does two incredibly important things - spontaneously reduces calorie intake (effects of CCK and PYY) in the dieter despite an often higher (than habitual) intake of meat, eggs, etc. and in parallel blunts hunger to provide satiety and maintain a reduction in calories without much effort.<BR/><BR/>Looking over epidemiological data, on dietary patterns in various countries, a pattern emerges - those who consume the highest percentage of protein in their diet (and often the highest absolute levels too) have the lowest rates of obesity and heart disease. Coincidence? Well, correlation is not causation, but it's very intriguing when we compare those countries (Japan, France, Italy, Spain, Iceland, Sweden, etc.) with the US and UK (both with higher obesity rates and higher incidence of CVD/CHD)<BR/><BR/>If we also look at published data from weight loss trials comparing low-fat diets to low-carb diets another interesting observation is found - as subjects begin to rebound and gain weight back, their protein consumption is paralleling downward - they lose weight with higher intakes of protein and begin to gain as protein decreases again back to almost habital (baseline) levels....but in the longer term studies where subjects have been able to maintain a carbohydrate restricted diet for about two years (diabetes studies), protein remains stable while weight loss continues and stable as it levels off into a maintaining mode for weight. <BR/><BR/>I'm still working on a paper about this, but it is very intriguing to me....and blows the whole idea of willpower - if consumption of EAA is a driving force, no level of willpower will override the biological imperative over the long term; and it will highlight the real effect of a toxic environment that has been created that makes meeting EAA that much harder today than ever before with so much junk food that is a poor source of protein..https://www.blogger.com/profile/09224160356421549054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34953284.post-80229092711513052842007-07-02T16:29:00.000-05:002007-07-02T16:29:00.000-05:00After reading Rethinking Thin and then delving fur...After reading <I>Rethinking Thin</I> and then delving further into this subject I cannot stop thinking about the implications of the research. I think that the only way that we will see an end to this "crisis" is by letting the truth about weight and dieting start to finally come out. The myths propagated by the diet industry, scientists and doctors (who should know better!) that we just need to eat less and exercise more and the problem will be solved are outrageous. They also get in the way of looking for real solutions. And (gasp!) it may be that the real "solution" is realizing that people come in all shapes and sizes and <I>there's nothing wrong with that.</I> That we should be pursuing healthier lifestyles instead of a certain size is a radical idea to some people, but certainly makes sense in light of what the research is telling us.<BR/><BR/>As a person who's been able to lose a great deal of weight and maintain for the most part, I know that I am one of the lucky ones (by the values of our society which I don't necessarily agree with) but that it doesn't come without a cost. I have to work harder than naturally slender people to keep myself at a weight that still leaves me in the "overweight" BMI category, and feeling like my body is not quite okay. I have learned to live in a constant state of deprivation which has come to feel like normal.Sweet Tarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10018807331355503131noreply@blogger.com